Ep. 21 | Taking the Leap… Into Firm Ownership
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John Tripolsky:Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the Mr. R show brought to you, edited, produced, and, I guess, we could say distributed by the MRR Institute. As always, we work pretty hard here to get you some great topics that you guys, the listeners, are actually interested in. So, again, content comes from everybody, whether we're at conferences, on the phone, emails, text messages, community chat boards, discussion boards, social media, you name it. We come up with these ideas because somebody wants to hear it.
John Tripolsky:So today's topic is you obviously can read in the title. You read in the description. We're gonna talk about taking that leap. So if you're curious what kind of leap we're talking about, your mother would not be very proud of you because you did not bother to read the description or the title of the show, but we are gonna talk about it. But before we do that, Chris McIero, welcome back, sir.
John Tripolsky:I can't do this without you. How you doing?
Chris Picciurro:I'm wonderful. Good to be back, John. Excited about our guest today. We've done a couple episodes on, this school falls into the that firm management, practice management, personal development. We've done a couple episodes on build versus buy a practice and then also building the difference in growth and scaling.
Chris Picciurro:However, we've not really done an a topic on taking that leap of faith, going onto that diving board, jumping up in the air, and and seeing what happens. So we're really excited to have Katie Munoz on our podcast this episode. We are on a a peer to peer mastermind group together. For those of you that don't know what a peer to peer mastermind group is, it's very prominent in other industries. Unfortunately, in the tax and accounting world, it's not as prominent, but it is a it's a group that we meet a couple times a month for an hour.
Chris Picciurro:And we talk through things that are going on in our practice, things that are going on in our lives a little bit. And and for those of us that feel like sometimes we're in a dingy out there that we're in a, in an office, somewhere in The United States, but you know, it's hard to talk about some practice management, some sales, some marketing, all of those things, client issues with maybe the other tax or accounting professional in your smaller town. So it gives people an idea. It gives people a chance to just basically, you know, have a, have a Sunday family dinner, but we do it during the middle of the day and, do it virtually a couple times a month. So amazing mastermind group.
Chris Picciurro:We have some awesome people in that group. Katie is one of them. She's definitely a leader in our group, thought leader, and we wanted to have her on to talk about taking that leap into firm ownership. So, Katie, welcome and, and tell us, yeah, tell us about yourself and, and maybe some, you know, some, some things about your firm, your, your background, location, and kinda what pushed you over the edge to to take that leap of faith about eight years ago into firm ownership?
Katie Munoz:First off, thanks for having me because I think that the experiences that I've had are kind of green, but have wanted to share them for a while and just didn't know how to. So I'm really excited to be here to be able to share the what worked and what didn't with people. So I actually went out on my own probably eight years ago, and it was a mutual, you know, ending at a firm that they the demanding hours where I needed to work, you know, seventy some hours a week, and they had this spreadsheet of showing who was working and how many hours, and I was kind of thrown under the bus every week because I was a mom of four and trying to get home and cook meals and it kind of came to the firm owner and just said this is not working for me. He said it's not working for me either and I said okay and I was kind of just forced into this. Okay, you can go back out into the workforce and you can do this again or you can try something different.
Katie Munoz:And I had been thinking about it for months and just wasn't brave enough to do it. And then it was sort of like God was like off the edge of the cliff. I was like, well, you're doing it now. And so I was like, I can I can do this good or I can, you know, not even try? So probably eight years ago, I ended up finding somebody else in in my local town.
Katie Munoz:We kinda merged together and brought our book of business and started collaborating running our firm, and I had a little bit more young experience, a newer experience, and he was older and had lots of wisdom and all the goods. But probably about eight years ago and have had some changes since then but have been good growing pains and you know good experiences. I think like I I I I say to my husband often now, why did I not do that ten years ago? What why did I keep convincing myself that this wasn't for me and now I'm here and I'm doing it. So, I think maybe my biggest regret is maybe not doing it a little sooner in all honesty.
Katie Munoz:Yeah.
Chris Picciurro:Well, I think that do you know, make kicking that leap of faith. I started my practice when I was young. I've I'm kind of the opposite. I I think I probably could have benefited from maybe one or two year more years of experience, but then I wouldn't be to to where we're at right now. And and here's what I'm seeing is the theme of the rigors of a traditionally run firm drove a super intelligent, super talented, caring person like yourself that wants a good work life balance out of that traditional firm model into more of a modern firm model model that I know you're a champion in your firm, and you've gone through some some changes also.
Chris Picciurro:And we're gonna talk about we're gonna talk about on this episode. So if you're listening to this and you're you're sitting in that traditional firm environment, quite frankly, we we've got a a friend in in our mastermind group that's kinda in that traditional model right now that probably want probably is is it would be greatly benefited by being in a more modern firm. So I it's great to hear younger people in our profession like yourself that do recognize that that balance and want to go into, you know, do the do things maybe a more I I call it a modern way, but pretty much a more humane way. I mean, it it really takes a toll on family kids. It's I I was on on another podcast about changing a lot, and actually, was doing something for Intuit before as far as taking scaling back to scale forward.
Chris Picciurro:Did like a little in, in, I really thought deep about it and it was the day my daughter was born. Who's just turned 15, our second child, because it realized, wait a second. Now we have two children under the age of two and two parents, but I'm an absentee parent. And she was born March nineteenth of twenty ten. I banged out over about 20 tax returns in, in the hospital, put my computer down when my wife was dilated at certain amount and they said, go time.
Chris Picciurro:And I was like, at that point, I sadly thought it was like, wow. This is cool how that I'm such a hardworking dad, and I'm, like, doing everything I can. And and and then it was kinda it hit me, and I was like, I'm doing everything wrong. What is wrong with me? So you kinda had that moment also, you know, when in in when firms, you know, when you're graded based on the hours worked, that just doesn't it doesn't make any sense.
Chris Picciurro:You know, practice makes permanent. Practice doesn't make perfect. So when someone says, well, I've been in practice thirty years. Yeah. Well, guess what?
Chris Picciurro:If you've been doing that the law, the that way for thirty years and you expect everyone else to do it that way, that might not be a bad that might not be a
Katie Munoz:good thing. Yep.
Chris Picciurro:You went off on your own. You and and well, you you had a small book of business that you had developed through personal relationships. And at that point, when you said, alright. Enough's enough. I've got you know, I wanna be a a, you know, have my mom hat and have my wife hat, have my, god forbid, you do something for yourself.
Chris Picciurro:Oh, no. Right? And and Yeah. And you say, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna be a firm owner.
Chris Picciurro:What what did you do next? I mean, what was because I I can imagine those first few months, those first ninety days are scary for someone. Yeah. But it gives us like, I remember driving to my office that I that I I ended up buying a small book of business and thinking, what do I do when I get there? I don't I don't have you know, what am I gonna do right now?
Chris Picciurro:Did you tell us about the first ninety days? If you could remember, and kind of what your thoughts were and and what what was the next step you did? Did you, you know, do you partner with somebody else or or how did how did you go about that?
Katie Munoz:I think I remember having, like, this fear of and I still have this to say I never one cannot be able to learn and and grow and so I was like okay exiting out of this giant firm who will I act and how will I grow and how will I know more things and and I had this like impending fear that that was it. I had to be in this large firm with all of these other people to make that happen. Really the first thing I did was I was like, I'm gonna go to NATP. I don't know what this is, but this looks like a conference that I could probably meet some people. And so then the next year I went to New Money and the new money conflict was really kind of a unique conference that was done by Western PPE.
Katie Munoz:It was kind of created for attorneys, firm owners. It was a little like a financial advisors, kind of like everybody who wants to grow a firm or know more about it, and it really gave them basics on foundational building, really getting processes and procedures and your networking. And I think that's what led me to the next step was just, okay, so I don't have to know everything now. I just have to continue seeking to know more. And as long as I can do that, you know, really well, I'll be fine.
Katie Munoz:And so I really spent the last three years networking and doing that. And then this coincidentally met had to fly to Florida for a conference down there to meet business partners that were only forty minutes away from me in my hometown, but didn't obviously, didn't know that I needed to fly to Florida to meet them. But went there, had a conference with them, had a couple of nights of dinner and just was like, that's what I want in my firm. I want to be able to have the flexibility to have online, you know, organizers, but also I'm okay if you come into my office and sort of I want to be modern and I want to be able to accommodate you know a certain profile of clients and I wasn't able to do that with the other partner I had and so this last year I did exit that partnership and enter into a new partnership in which our our vision just align a little bit better. And that might be one of the learning points for me is just before you ever enter into a partnership or as you're sitting down and doing these goals to really ask yourself what you want.
Katie Munoz:And I don't think the partner you pick has to have everything lined up with you, but about 80% of it should be lined up and the other 20 you're going to argue over and disagree on. But I think what it came down to was what I had wanted was I wanted to continue to grow and I wanted to continue to learn and take on different clients and that wasn't what was going to happen in the old firm. So I think had I have actually sat down and evaluated what was going to be important to me and where my five year goal, my ten year goal. And I think those are hard because in five years, I'm like, don't know what I'm going to do in five years. You don't want to make a guess, but if I could, I could pick what I want to be doing in five years.
Katie Munoz:I'm going to be laying on a beach in Fiji, And so I think just being realistic and setting those is not a bad thing and I didn't do that from the get go. So this next go round that was what me and my new partner did was like, what is it you want? And if we don't agree, we're not going to enter and grow partnership. And we just align very nicely on where we want to take our firm. That was a hard lesson, but I I've grown from it and I'm better because of it.
Katie Munoz:So
Chris Picciurro:And where for the people listening and then I have a follow-up question. What's the name of your firm right and and where are you guys physically located? Where are your clients typically located? Is it virtual, in person?
Katie Munoz:Mhmm. So it's MHPE DPA, and my partner was actually living in Alaska, the firm started in Alaska, but then he moved and relocated down to Washington State. And so we've now opened a branch here in Washington State. So essentially now we just have two locations for MHBE. And he's actually down in like Vancouver, Washington, and I'm a little bit more of a Longview, Washington.
Katie Munoz:Then we probably will open another branch or two depending on if the Vancouver area is something for us. But that's with one of our goals was to have a couple of different branches and locations to be able to serve a lot of businesses and bookkeeping. We do everything in our office. So
Chris Picciurro:That's what I was gonna ask you. So you guys are pretty full service. I mean, do you have do bookkeeping payroll? Can you Tell us kind of about your mix. Do you do at test work?
Chris Picciurro:What were your what your mix of of services are in your firm?
Katie Munoz:Yeah. My business partner really does a lot of the application and larger corporate returns, and then we actually have a whole bookkeeping department, a payroll department, and then a tax department, and they're all pretty separate. And that was kind of my my goal was that, you know, everybody kind of says, like, the niche that you want to do. And I was not willing to give up all of it. I love the idea that we can actually help businesses run internally and help them do the things right in every department, but that Katie can't do it all.
Katie Munoz:So being able to break this up into the department, then other people could do these things really well. I do, like, fractional CFO and sort of, like, internal management on a temporary basis, and that's actually what I love. And so helping those businesses decide when they're at capacity with employees and if they're actually making money on a certain projects. And so we actually do a little bit of everything. It's just we will have a department that will serve you and then you'll roll over to a different department.
Katie Munoz:You know, if you got a tax question and that leaves each department being able to focus on what they're good at instead of I'm gonna do a little bit of everything. So
Chris Picciurro:We're gonna go back to when you when you went, you know, when you went off, I'm gonna say I'm when I say on your own, basically, you moved into firm ownership about eight years eight years ago, and now you just went through a transition in transitioning in business partners. Take take away your your relationships with your your your your coworkers or your team. What was the reaction with your family, your friends, mentors? When, like, you said, hey. I wanna go off on my own eight years ago.
Chris Picciurro:We know the trigger point, but were what were the what were people around you you know, were they so some What were their sentiments? Because I remember mine, and it was it was in it's interesting to think back at us.
Katie Munoz:I think my husband was a % whatever you need. I am gonna be here for you and he still is to this day. I think everybody else was a little bit like, but you're not a CPA yet, but you don't have experience, but you don't know what you're doing. And I kind of got this big long list and was like, you're right, but I'm gonna keep trying. And there I do, I am kind of a personality where you tell me I'm not gonna do something and I am gonna do it and I'm gonna do it really good.
Katie Munoz:And so I think there was probably a little bit of fuel in there to be like I think this is going against the grain of what everybody think will happen and that I will fail and that you can't run a business and have I have six kids You can't run a business and have six kids and I coach two volleyball teams right now. One is a high school team, right? You can't possibly do those things and I'm probably a little bit overloaded at the moment, but I don't think there was a lot of super great support minus my husband, and I just kind of had to grin and bear it and say, I know, but I think I I think this is it. I think this is it. And this had a whole steady with it.
Katie Munoz:Yeah.
Chris Picciurro:No. That's cool. I now that I think about it and I always talk about the gap and the gain, the sting book. But, you know, don't let other every the other people living in their gap put the gap on you. You know what mean?
Chris Picciurro:You gotta live in your own gain and and I think about, like, most you know, we I grew up in a very blue collar area out right outside of Detroit. So I like, I didn't really know people that own their own business except my grandfather owned one. So I was like, it seems so risky. Right? It's like, okay.
Chris Picciurro:If you've ever read rich dad, poor dad, the the the path is get a job, go to college, boom, boom, boom, boom, and and it's like, you know, I'm thinking, I don't know. I just had something in my mind saying, no. I I'm more of an entrepreneur that happens to do the CPA stuff and and and you mentioned having a supportive spouse is a game changer for a lot of people. You know, for me, I'm very blessed. My I started my practice about a year and a half before I met my wife.
Chris Picciurro:So I I look at it like I didn't to me, I didn't have any risk. Like, I didn't have any children. I didn't have a a spouse. I didn't I hadn't even met her yet. And so what did I have to lose?
Chris Picciurro:I had everything to bet on myself. I didn't have six kids. I wasn't coaching baseball. You know what I mean? And and so but having someone supportive in your, you know, a support system.
Chris Picciurro:It doesn't have to be a spouse. It could be anyone. Just one or two people that's like your fan club can go a long way because a lot of time, people I don't know why they I don't know why they question things. Maybe they're just afraid they're gonna lose you or they're gonna well, I don't know. I don't know what the story is
Katie Munoz:on And I just think there is such a giant stigma, which you we have all talked about this in the accounting industry of the if you're gonna go on your own, then you must be working those fifty hours to run that practice. And and I don't want to pretend that the first couple years wasn't a ton of sweat equity. It absolutely was. I was the one staying late at night if there was something that needed to be done. There was even the first years that I was mopping the floors and wiping off death after everybody left.
Katie Munoz:Like, I have done it all to make sure that I could afford paying my employees and and I'm definitely I don't want anybody to think that it's you're just going to walk into this blissful, you know, life but years into this, I know that that hard work was worth it and really then in the experience that I had in exiting and just recently January, right from this other firm, I, you know, I check-in with my employees. I want to make sure they are Okay. I will not be in charge of you not going to your daughter's ballet recital. If you have a recital, you are going put it on the calendar. Like I'm not your micromanager and I will not be managing you and your children's lives or your family's life.
Katie Munoz:And so when I chose to leave this other firm, I let everybody know and was like, hey, kind of similar to like a merger, there is room for everybody who'd like to join. And everybody left that other firm, all my assistants, all my front desk gals, all my preparers minus the other partner and his daughter stayed in the other half of the firm, and the other six or seven employees came with me. And that meant a lot to me because what that meant was a they kind of blindly did it. They kind of just said, hey, do we trust you and wherever you go, we're going because this is what you built and this is great. We don't want to work for anybody else.
Katie Munoz:And that was really like, wow, are you guys sure? Like didn't even know about like what what what our retirement packages are. Have to like redo like you know they'd had time and service in my firm, but as we enter into a new firm who's honoring that? Know all these questions and they were like, no, we don't really care. We're, you know, and there were things we had to pan out and get some extra time paid off and things.
Katie Munoz:But I know that then what I did before was all of the right things. If these people came with me and I want to continue to make sure that we're we're doing those things for these people because without them coming with me to this new firm, we wouldn't have had just a really nice smooth transaction of all of the clients coming together and all the hard work they've done in the last three months. I'm like high fiving them you guys are amazing. So there's there's that pride to that knowing that I probably did some things right then right that's nice. Absolutely.
Katie Munoz:On the cake
Chris Picciurro:well as a firm owner I mean we've been doing, I've been doing this for over twenty years. There are times in luckily now, not anymore, but if you've been in business long enough, you you've either paid everyone and you've not got paid or you've put your your your essentially, you know, put, put your payroll on a credit card at some point you have had. So if you've done that or you're worried about that, it's gonna happen, but you've gotta have faith, you know, especially when you grow sometimes you have to deploy some cash and it, you know, and, and, but, but then in the bigger picture, then it might give you a symptom. So for us, when we ran into some cash flow issues, you know, a while, you're dealing about ten, twelve years ago, it was more of a symptom of, you know, my prices really weren't where they needed to be. It wasn't that I had bad clients.
Chris Picciurro:It wasn't that I was out, you know, spending money on a Lamborghini. It just, it, it, we weren't in line. And so that's that we got through it. You determine what's the root of it? Let your pride go to the side a little and say, why, why is this like win and learn, don't win and lose, win and learn.
Chris Picciurro:So you've done that.
Katie Munoz:Yeah. Yeah. And I think something else too that probably took me years to realize was I thought that running this firm meant that I had to be good at everything and I had to do everything. And I think the probably in the top five part of things is being able to say, yeah, I probably can do that better, but I'm not going to because I can teach somebody else to do this and I can delegate this. And then also, you know, kind of that control of, but what if I let this go?
Katie Munoz:This is what I've built. I mean, I think finding the people that you're going to build this with is really important. The people that you can trust, the people that you can, you know, train to do these things and know that they are going to treat your business like yours is really difficult. And I think if you find those people, you hang on to them, you pay them well, you give them the time off that they want. And I think for me, like I said, kind of realizing that I might not be good at everything.
Katie Munoz:And I had I have a couple of friends who have branched out and done this and gone on their own and they're just like, is this not working for me? And I've had to kind of come in and critique and I've been honest and say, you're really good at taxes and you're just not really good at managing a business. And I think that's okay. So what we did was we got him a business manager who came in and just helped him keep his life in order and get the platform back up to what he needed. And then he realized I'm really not good at managing the business.
Katie Munoz:So he hired a CFO, CEO to come in and kinda do these things. And he was he waited six years to do it because he was so, like, in turmoil about how he should be really good at this. If you're gonna run your business, you have to be. You have to be good at everything. And I was like, no, you don't.
Katie Munoz:You have to be good at finding people to help you be good. That's it. You just have to find the people that are gonna help you be good. And so it took him a bit and he went backwards a little bit and then was like, alright, I'm gonna bite the bullet and I think he I think he cut his salary to hire on the person he needed and then they took off, Because his business relations was good, his marketing was then good, they hired a marketing manager, and all of these things kind of fell into play. And then here I was looking back at me and I was like, all right, So what is Katie not good at and what does Katie need to change?
Katie Munoz:And so I think that was about the time that I was kind of looking for something different and ended up finding my partner was that I knew I needed some feel stronger in like accusation and some of the things that I'm less experienced in and was like, okay, well, I'm okay that he knows more than me. I'm I'm not actually bothered by the fact that, you know, both of these people on this podcast probably know more than me in a lot of areas, especially baseball or cricket ball. And I don't know anything about those two things, but I'm okay with that. And and I'm glad that, you know, I have people around me who will help me be better at those things. So that those are some tough lessons too.
Chris Picciurro:No. You are right. I mean, that is a tough lesson because I know what I not only there's a couple of things. One, what I'm not good at and what we could find better people at. And two, what I don't like to do.
Chris Picciurro:Like, you've yes. We've all been there where we had to sweep the floors, clean off the rings of coffee after Sean left. I go, Mark. But get to the point where you're doing you're in your your unique ability. You're in your your element, and you're gonna perform the best.
Chris Picciurro:It feels so good. I I love now. We have people on our team that are way better than me at preparing tax returns. And I feel so good about Yeah. Talking to a client during a tax plan or tax projection and knowing that I'm not even thinking twice if they do, for instance, a cost segregation study that it's gonna hit the tax trend exactly how it needs to.
Chris Picciurro:I don't have to babysit it. I'm I'm not fighting the sloth fire right now. And that actually, that's the sign of great leadership. When you could bring in people complementary skill sets that are that could that could do things, you know, as a firm owner, not only better, but accepting that they're gonna do it differently than you, but still could get a better result. That's hard to to deal with sometimes.
Chris Picciurro:So I
Katie Munoz:don't believe that I don't believe that correct. No. No. I'm just kidding. I think again, you know there is also a certain type of person that goes out on their own I think you kind of get the people who are a little bit more rogue and who are going to do things their way.
Katie Munoz:I think that's amazing because that's probably where we are going to do really good. I've never been really great at putting me inside of a box and making me follow every rule and the expectation. And I'm, you know, I I follow IRS rules and all the time. Right? But when I got into this, again, that experience with that firm where there was a spreadsheet being issued and my name was at the bottom every week, you could see everybody's performances.
Katie Munoz:And I looked at that and I thought, that can't be right. Like, who does that? Who makes sure that the bottom guy sees down at the bottom every week? And it was me. Right?
Katie Munoz:And I and and I was like, I and I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad worker. I was like trying everything I could to be there every waking hour that I could and do my best and it wasn't good enough. And I think I think when I think about this that's the stigma I want to break. If it's everybody else, you know, majority of the world still thinks we should be working sixty hours right now.
Katie Munoz:And the fact that I'm going to a Blazers game with my kid tonight was like, oh, you have time for that, but you don't have time for my taxes. I have gotten comments like that where I've just had, I've had to say, well, people are before paper, that people in my life including myself are more important than the paper that you have in your hand and that doesn't devalue your paper. It does mean that everybody in this office is more important than your piece of paper. And and and I'm not hurting your feelings by saying that. I'm actually trying to say that I think you want a healthy Katie doing your taxes.
Katie Munoz:I think you want a well rested Katie doing your taxes, not the 60 a week, you know, hour a week driven Katie who's exhausted and was here till 10:00 last night. That's not the Katie you want doing your taxes. Right? And I don't know why we can't convince people of that, but that's the expectation and so breaking that mold with the client is just is painful and then we don't want to do it where people Caesars, we want to make everybody happy. So we're gonna get that return done and we're going to stay late and I've just had to say I'm not.
Katie Munoz:I'm so sorry. I'll be back here tomorrow at nine. He is in. Yeah.
Chris Picciurro:I had this exact conversation with my wife, my son, my little one. Speaking of baseball, had a baseball game Tuesday night. I have this this this week And I when I had my moment and I was like, I'm not missing you know, there are times when we miss stuff. Like, we met we both make that commitment to go to tax policy. We make the commitment to to I'm not but I'm not missing if I can, I'm not missing rehearsals and games and stuff.
Chris Picciurro:And I was like, we were just talking up and she's like, she's like, you know what's crazy when I mean, you know, let's say twelve years ago, thirteen years ago, you would have never been here. I'm like, I know. And and I was remembering when we used to keep time sheets and I have like burning with this of being this so long ago, we're on QuickBooks Desktop, okay? But we're in a hosted environment. Looking at my time sheet saying, I worked over one hundred hours this week and that didn't even include my drive to and from the office because we weren't virtual at the time.
Chris Picciurro:And now my kids are like, get to your kids' ages. I think you might have a couple of younger ones, but I'm thinking a couple of high schoolers in a in a elementary. And I'm thinking, my kids are like, what, dad? You I'm like, you don't understand this. You know?
Chris Picciurro:Because I fought I caught myself in that. My motivation was good because I was trying to be I was trying to support them, but I was caught in that old old firm model. And it and, yeah, I'm glad I snapped out of that a long, long time ago. But like you're saying, it's crazy to judge people on that. That's ridiculous, but I kinda judge myself.
Katie Munoz:We just put the the baseball games on the calendar. We leave early. My front desk scout leaves early for baseball games. Really, we don't really have to say no unless there's a huge conflict and four of us are gone out of the office, and we just make sure we coordinate, you know, what's happening. There's just no reason I look at other people and I think do you miss your kids' baseball game for work?
Katie Munoz:Well, no, I work nine to five. Well, that's cool me too right so like that like III just don't I don't know where that gets broken off, and I do think it's getting better. I do think we're talking about it more, and there are people who are trying to say this over and over and over. And there are people living the life and doing it, but, you know what mean? I I had a just a client came in and was like, I just wanna know where my tax return is.
Katie Munoz:And I was like, oh, it's the second time you stopped in. Like, we're still working on stuff. We have hundreds of people stuck in here. If I stop, we give you an update every time. And she looked at me like I was just crazy that I couldn't tell her the date her stuff would be done.
Katie Munoz:And and I said, well, this this guy here, and he's a a long time client. He took five hours and you know what mean? I don't know that until I get a new treatment. He's laughing at me. And and this guy was kind of like, well, I just don't understand what my stuff had been done.
Katie Munoz:And I I got done, and so we do have a policy that at the end of the year, we want to off board 10 people. We get to nominate 10 people. And I kinda winked at my front my front office gal, and I was like, put her on the list. And and I was being I'm funny and facetious, but maybe not at the same time because because I don't come to your work and ask you when you're gonna get me that dentist appointment, and I don't come to your work and ask you why my prescription is not ready. Like, I am I'm not I'm not bothering you in these other times.
Katie Munoz:I'm just waiting patiently. And you know what? I say this to my kids. Waiting is hard. Thank you for being so patient.
Katie Munoz:I literally sometimes I have to say this to clients and I just don't know another industry where this is happening where we are being treated like we're not working enough when I am by golly. I'm hitting sixty plus hours a week and it's not enough for you. So I do think it's a a social expectation, but I also think the industry is weird right now as we have talked about this. There are more people exiting this industry and retiring than there are people entering. And so the lines are gonna get longer and the tax returns are gonna take more time.
Katie Munoz:And I don't think people care to stop and hear that or understand. I think they just want their stuff done. And, you know, and that that's the best that they can do. I try to inform them of of the reason it's taking so long and that we are always doing the best we can. So I think changing some of those social expectations and informing people is something that everybody have to do for us all to win.
Katie Munoz:Right? We all have to get on the same page.
Chris Picciurro:Right. Absolutely. No. You've got you've got communication solves all problems. I'm gonna take you to a fun question, kind of a fun question.
Chris Picciurro:I don't know. I think it's fun. And then jump back into kind of how you're building your business. Do you remember landing, like, your first client? Like, someone that feeling like they're really gonna pay me or do this?
Chris Picciurro:Like, me personally, not my firm or no?
Katie Munoz:Yeah. Yeah. I do. Mhmm.
Chris Picciurro:What was it? Without spelling our name or anything, well, can you tell us a little bit about it?
Katie Munoz:Yep. They were a large butcher shop in town, and they had tons of books that were really messy and tax returns that they've been paying some grandiose amount down south that were just egregiously wrong. And I remember being like, oh my goodness. So I have to what do I have to do first? I have to fix the book.
Katie Munoz:Then then I was like, have to amend this tax return. I had to make this list. And I kinda remember at some point feeling overwhelmed and I did remember thinking, what if I have questions? What if I can't do this? And then I thought, well, I guess I'll just I'll just do it and if I get in it, right, I'll I'll figure it out.
Katie Munoz:I never really had a moment where I was just absolutely stumped, but they are still a long term client and I I've actually packed them off now for some more internal like CFO stuff with another friend because they need a little bit more than what I can offer them and they're grateful for it and we have a really great relationship and that was I mean they were with me for probably eight eight years and but maybe a little piece of me is just like I love that client extra. I don't know why they were always patient with me. They were always good to me, but probably because they were that first one that just gave me that like you're gonna do this and we need help And and, yeah, they're still amazing people to this day, but I'm glad they're in in good hands too.
Chris Picciurro:Obviously, we talked about kinda going off on your own. You I like that you guys do, you know, your I mean, you're pretty full service with your clients. What's what you know, talk about your pricing and packaging and what's, like, working for you now. What what in in your practice. Because because that's the other thing is someone trying to thinking about going off on their own.
Chris Picciurro:It's it's tough making the menu. Right? It's tough feeling setting those prices because we know you only have one time to show value to a client, and that's in the beginning. It's, you know, our clients our biggest struggle clients are are like it's quite frankly our legacy clients that have been with me for twenty two years now. They're not paying the prices that we're we we've adjusted them, but they're not definitely not paying market prices, but it also reflects if it weren't for them, I wouldn't we wouldn't have a you know, the team we have.
Chris Picciurro:So, yeah, what what's working for you now, pricing and packaging, and and where's your where's your kinda sweet spot?
Katie Munoz:Yeah. So we will do, like, a payroll bookkeeping package for, like, the lowest is 500, and that's the starting. And then, you know, I kind of had this open market for I do a lot of corporate returns. Not a big fan of partnership. I like corporate returns, and I do a lot of those.
Katie Munoz:But what I was finding was that I I probably do the entire bookkeeping for probably 90 of them, and there's another 10 to 15 that they just bring me these books at the end of the year. And I didn't always have this policy, but recently have adopted the policy that I just won't be doing those taxes anymore because there's so much cleanup in January because their bookkeeper their bookkeeper says they tied everything out and that their books are clean and there's loans that are still not you know, balanced out and the interest hasn't been accrued and and so I've I've this last year actually said I'm so sorry. This is it. I'll do your books this year, but after this if I don't do your bookkeeping and I can't keep it clean and I can't plan for you and we're not doing the whole package. I'm really not doing it.
Katie Munoz:So I do think we kind of switch this over a little bit to where we'll offer some, you know, midyear evaluation, some fractional CFO, and some tax planning kind of wrapped in there. Because this is newer for us, I think what we're doing with a few of these is we're just doing subscription model for about five of them right now at $2,000 a month, and we will do all of those things throughout the year for them. And I think that would be the lowest we will go. I think some of them are really more gonna be 2,500 or 3,000 a month if we offer more CFO services. And then a corporate tax return, probably about $2,000.
Katie Munoz:An individual tax return that's basic is gonna be 500. I do have a few legacy clients that came with me who have followed me, like you said, for years, and some of them were just grandmas with a couple of retirement forms. There's a few that I slip in there for like a $300 return and it's mostly because I just love them to pieces and I'm not gonna have them go down to the H and R block down the road. But everybody else who's coming in is paying those, you know, those prices and that was a hard adjustment. We actually locked a very large portion of people that when we went from the $2.50 to the 500 really quick and I did this.
Katie Munoz:Keep in mind, I switched firms. Right? So it was really like I exited my old firm and that was what we were charging and so now we're charging this. We lost a lot of clients, but I will I will also then tell you, and we are all thinking this. I'm just gonna say this.
Katie Munoz:So the client who was paying the crap money was the worst client anyways. The client who was willing to pay for your time and values you and is gonna pay you this $700 for that basic tax return is really, really a great client because they know that you just made them sleep better at night, and they know that you just saved them and that they don't have to see you for a whole another year and they're fine with it. To grasp that concept was like, I'd like to do those small guys and you get the grouchy people, and I have to pay that bill of 300 and pretty soon I was like, you know the people who pay the 500 don't care. They're not grouchy at all. Why?
Katie Munoz:Well, explain this, Jimmy.
Chris Picciurro:The you know, the yeah. And everyone goes through that. I agree a %. If you're listening to this well, if you're hearing me, you're listening to this. I hate when people say that.
Chris Picciurro:Why do I just say that? If they weren't listening, they wouldn't have heard this, and I wouldn't say if you're listening. Have you ever let's say you've had a wedding. Let's say you've even had a New Year's Eve party or you've had the birthday party for a child of yours. You've got your go to friends are absolutely invited, and you know they're gonna show up, and they're gonna be great.
Chris Picciurro:Then you get to that point where, gosh, if I invited Fred, Fred runs around with Joe. Gosh. If I don't invite Joe, Joe's wife plays pickleball with my wife. Let's just invite these these two you're they're the fringe invitees. Right?
Chris Picciurro:There could be anything. Yeah. They they're the ones that don't RSVP or don't RSVP.
Katie Munoz:They don't bring any food. Definitely don't bring an appetizer.
Chris Picciurro:They have to they they're, like, bringing their kids because they couldn't find a babysitter. Like, they're your pain in the butt guests that you were, like, But the bottom line is everyone that was a was a fringe guest to your party, your event, you know in your heart you shouldn't have invited them, but you did because you thought you had to, ends up being your worst guest. It's not your best buddy, and then go they know you know, the people of your go to is your ride or dyers that are a problem. So that's the way I look at it. Like, look, man.
Chris Picciurro:If it's not a heck yeah, it's a no. That that's that's that's life. I I went I was part of BiggerPockets for a while. I'm still in the community, but I'm not, like, a paying, like, vendor or anything. And BiggerPockets is a huge real estate investing community, and there's a guy that started it who came to speak to our group a couple times, our real estate investor group.
Chris Picciurro:And and he basically he just said, look. I changed my life when I took this motto. It's not a hell yeah. It's a no. And I felt go like, my wife and I were terrible at, like, Katie, let's say you and your husband are like, hey.
Chris Picciurro:We're gonna go to this concert in it's what are they? In August. Like, do you guys wanna go? And I'm like, I really don't like that band, but, yeah, it kinda sounds fun. It's in August.
Chris Picciurro:So I'll just say, yeah, and then and then it gets a week to like, gosh. I don't even like this artist. I don't wanna go to this concert. It's a hundred degrees out in Nashville and humid. It's outdoors.
Chris Picciurro:So in other words, if I'm not, if I wouldn't say yes to this tomorrow, then I'm not saying yes to it now just because it's in a few months. So anyway, that that so if you're listening to this, like Katie said, you've got those those those clients, the the grouchy ones, it's a very friendly way of putting it. They're probably a a minute sliver of your revenue and a and they're not worth the the the headache. So we all have them.
Katie Munoz:No. They're gonna they're gonna get you on the nomination list to be ejected for the end of the year is what's gonna happen in the city firm. We're filling that list up real fast.
Chris Picciurro:The transfer portal. They're gonna be putting the transfer portal, and you'll be friendlies. You know what? I I and it's so easy to send them the note in an email, text, whatever, or letter like, hey. You know, we know you, you know, we know you you weren't that thrilled with the whatever.
Chris Picciurro:You you we we don't think we're a great fit for you anymore. We now understand that the the financial commitment for tax preparation was a little bit that you weren't you don't say anything to me. Like, you weren't comfortable with it, and we really want you to find a firm that that fits your needs better. And goodbye.
Katie Munoz:Yeah. That that's all. Yeah. Exactly.
Chris Picciurro:That and then they'll probably go and be like, I I can't believe these people, and and then everyone's gonna consider their source.
Katie Munoz:Something else I thought of is just like, you know, there are other there are really great resources out there for people who are thinking about, you know, taking this leap or have already done it. And I love Jason Stass. He always has, like, a really great evaluation of softwares and things that you need, like, basic stuff to start up, and it's not as extensive as you would think. We do use Tactome, and I know that there's, like, Canopy and Carbon and, like, a few other ones that are amazing. It keeps my life in order, and I don't actually think Tacton's any better than anything else.
Katie Munoz:I just think you need something. You need to have something that keeps you with a pipeline and organization and communication with your client, and they're not that expensive. So for people who are kinda considering this, watch a couple of videos on, you know, Jason. He evaluates these for accountant and is in our back pocket to be like, this is the best one for you. This one's not worth your money.
Katie Munoz:And really, you know, looking at the four things that you might need, which would be your tax software and, you know, your practice management and, you know, Microsoft three sixty five. Like, I really think the list isn't as daunting as it needs to be, and there's a few other ones that, of course, like, think you and I use, like, use Loom for videos and but they're all really easy to find inefficient, but I would say, you know, reaching out and looking at like, once you click on Jason's stuff, there's a bunch of other things under his profiles that have softwares and even just some of your podcasts of, like, you know, they're not for new content if we have new firm owners, but, you know, you don't know what decision you should be making for this or you want a little bit of help. There is a plethora of people out there who will respond and help and give information and guide because they think that people like you and I are like, please people join us in this industry. We want to all be successful. There is actually enough room for all of us.
Katie Munoz:I'm not intimidated by either somebody else who has different clients than me and that I can give clients to other people if they're not, you know, a good fit here. And there is enough for everybody. So I think for those people who are pondering or maybe have already done it, just, you know, considering that find some resources go to some of your compasses ask some questions people will help they will give you advice and you know take it like a grain of salt, but you know also you know those are the people who have done the wrong and they're they're learning how to do the right. So we've all done it. Every single one of us.
Katie Munoz:Right?
Chris Picciurro:Yeah. A lot of people pay paid a lot of tuition. That's funny because my next question was gonna be about tools and technology and processes that have saved you time. I would say, you know, I agree on you know, we use Canopy and use tax you make a decision, make it the right decision. There a lot of them have their pluses and minuses.
Chris Picciurro:You're just like a spouse, you're not gonna find the perfect one. You gotta find well, I like what you said about the partner. 80% fit. Right? Because we could live with that.
Chris Picciurro:80% is pretty, and you could fill in the gaps. Your taxposium is amazing. It you know, it can be expensive. It's an know, and so so if that's not where you're at at this point in your journey, no problem. Honestly, I would I would when I first started off, I went to the IRS nationwide tax forums.
Chris Picciurro:Now the level of educational content IRS isn't our sponsor, are they? Isn't isn't, like, that of that a longtime firm owner is gonna look for. Here's what happens. I spend and John's been with me many times in these events. We spend a half our time in the trade show.
Chris Picciurro:So like you're saying, Katie, you you need a building block of a CRM. Go talk to the four or five players, but go in with what you're looking for because they're all gonna seem really shiny and and and nice. Go in for tech prop. Right? And say, hey.
Chris Picciurro:You know, ProTaxConnect is pretty expensive, but but maybe Drake might be a good fit for you. There's no wrong answer. It's go in there and and with the pandemic, the positive of the pandemic as far as the conferences are, like, most of them are virtual. The people at the conferences, I've yet to really run into too many people. There's a couple grouchies there.
Chris Picciurro:But how many people go to these conferences and say, I don't wanna talk to anyone for three or four days? Why would you go?
John Tripolsky:And, Chris, if I can actually build on that a little bit too, which I thought was super interesting. You know? Again, I've kinda been sitting here riding the pine for, what, forty minutes or so. But, you know, going to those conferences, it is really interesting because even, you know, speaking from somebody's seat that is not a CPA, is not somebody that will ever file a tax return for another human being as long as I live because I have people like you that will actually do it right. I don't think that I've ever actually witnessed any conversations at any tax professional focused conference or even event where people are standoffish, where they don't wanna share information.
John Tripolsky:And the reason I say that is is I think y'all kinda have that understanding of there is so much work for everybody that there's not really a competitive nature on, you know, oh, I don't wanna do away my secret sauce because, you know, somebody's gonna steal it, and they're gonna take all my clients where, you know, you can go to a number of them in any industry, and there's
Chris Picciurro:a little bit of, you
John Tripolsky:know, keeping things close to the chest because they are afraid of that competition, I think, in some sense. But it is really cool to see that, you know, in in your industry because people almost are very proud of when they've they have something that's working really well or they, you know, they're they're proud of their good clients, their processes, their their growth, everything about that, and they wanna share it. And I and I can say this too that I've probably only seen it maybe once or twice in a couple years here that somebody is kind of arrogant about it. Right? Most people are are proud of it, but not you know, they're not saying, oh, well, I'm the best.
John Tripolsky:It's saying, hey. You know, our team has done very good with this. So just, you know, kinda adding it in there too. If somebody's looking to go to one of those conferences, you know, to to get information and has never been before, definitely don't be afraid because that is the one industry that is more welcoming to more people because they're needed, and people realize that.
Chris Picciurro:Hey. Most of us were nerds our entire life, so because we like math. So we're just happy to be talking to people.
John Tripolsky:I wanna get you an abacus and a pocket protector for Christmas.
Katie Munoz:I wanna touch on, like, you know, you did say NATP is kind of expensive, but some of the things and avenues that I did in addition to that was, like, your local in state, you know, meetups and Washington State has a meeting and a greeting once every quarter, I think. And then, actually, me and a couple other gals down in Portland have gotten on, like, LinkedIn and started a page there and just found people vocal to the Portland area. And once a quarter, not including tax season, we go down to, like, a a little pub house, and it's got, like, 10 different vendors of, like, food trucks. And we sit, and we all just sit for two or three hours, and we just talk dumb, nerdy, tax stuff. And I've met some really, really green people who like there's one guy who's been doing this for three months on his own, and he is like, I don't even know what I'm doing.
Katie Munoz:Right? And and we've just been like, go here, do this, try this software. Do you need me to help you with this? And it's free right like that's free you buy yourself the street tacos and you sit and you talk about accounting and taxes and so I think just making sure that you look at all avenues whether they're expensive or free like the local stuff is great. I've actually reached out to one gal in town here, and I have met up with her another CPA.
Katie Munoz:And I'm just like, hey. Can we make sure that we're like, if I don't if I can't do the correctional CFO stuff, we're the only two in town that will. Can I just give them to you and, you know, if there's no capacity? She's like, No competition in there whatsoever. Like, I think she's great.
Katie Munoz:I think she's amazing. She's doing a great job. I'm gonna keep the you know, beating her if she needs it, and if I can do it, I will. And I think that, you know, like, I'll I have called other tax payers and been like, hey, what do I do with this Oregon situation? Can you tell me?
Katie Munoz:And they're like, oh, yeah. But I never would have had that five years ago had I have kind of not gotten myself out there and network and found a few people in my back pocket. And these same people have called me back and been like, I'm in tax home, and I can't figure out how to do the setting. And then I walk them through the setting, and then we're like, oh, Reeben, you helped me do the organ. But, know, I just think finding that group is free, and that is something that's actually really valuable to you.
Katie Munoz:You can even put a price on how cool that is. So
Chris Picciurro:No. I love it. And I love that we're talking about, you know, could we always talk collaboration over competition. I mean, that's one of our foundational pieces here. And and we've talked a lot about boundaries even in our mastermind group.
Chris Picciurro:We talk about boundaries equal power. Boundary you know, and you gotta say no to say yes. So there's a lot of these themes, and and I agree. Locally, there's probably a tax proper or tax professional chapter locally that you can get involved with. So it's it's Yep.
Chris Picciurro:You're gonna get out way more than you put into it, and that's that's kind of the good thing. Well, as we're kinda the plane start starting to descend, I've got some questions. Couple few more questions for you. Just thinking about, like, the last ten years. I know, obviously, eight of it, you've been a firm owner.
Chris Picciurro:What's your, like, biggest win that you've had? If you could say one big win.
Katie Munoz:Yeah. That I think somewhere along the line, somebody called me and looked at me that there would be no way I would be able to run a business, be a mom, and, you know, have be on my feet. So and I remember that person, and I remember gawking at them, and I'll be also being like, oh, they're probably right. And, you know, ten years later, I have moments when it's not easy, and I have moments when I would like more sleep. But realistically, I look back and I think I don't think this is easy, and I don't think everybody can do this, and it is for everybody, but I am doing it.
Katie Munoz:And that's that's pretty cool to just be able to say, you know, when I was a kiddie used to say, I want to own my own business. I I want to have a family and I want to build a house. I've literally done all those things and I'm 41. Right? Like, I'm I'm literally like, I have more dreams when I come up with more things guys.
Katie Munoz:The list is gonna get longer. But I to be able to say that I really kind of have done the majority of what I've always wanted to do, like, life wise, I'm I'm crushing it right now. Right? But I'm feeling good about that. Yep.
Chris Picciurro:Absolutely. I love it. Is there a book and we talk about resources as far as, like, professional organizations, and you mentioned a resource as far as in the accounting field. But is there a book or podcast or anything that has that's your that you it's kinda your you swear by. You really and it doesn't even have to be accounting related.
Chris Picciurro:Obviously, mine is the gap in the game because I talk about this darn book all the time and who not how. One day I have a mission to to meet the meet the guys. I wrote that book because I'm forever thankful, but do you have one?
Katie Munoz:This is gonna sound like paid advertisement. But on the nights that I am here at work late, I turn on your podcast and I turn it sideways, and I watch you and John, and I just go through the episodes. And whether I think I know the criteria or not, I let it play. And I listen to f corps and all the stuff that you know what? If I pick up one thing that I'm like, didn't know that.
Katie Munoz:Right? I'm happy to do that. I'm kind of a nerd, and I don't really do a lot of other things besides, like, faith live live at the baseball fields in this time of year and watch my accounting contacts. And sometimes I watch Jason Astat because he has, like, a really funny things in there that, again, nobody wants to say or make fun of. And like the bad clients or the situations we've gotten in and then like you know, where's my transfer shirt?
Katie Munoz:Is it done yet? He's got a really funny one that's like how about now and like it. I'm like, my god like the I have to turn on those right now to get myself through the next three weeks and be like, I you know what? Some really dumb Jason Depp videos to, like, know that somebody else feels what I feel right now and that we're all gonna survive. Those are my go to right now.
Katie Munoz:And then, you know, the good old I'm actually finishing my CPA exam. The good old CPA books is what I'm doing right now. I don't think anybody else wants a piece of that right now, but that's what I'm doing. John? No.
Katie Munoz:No. Nope.
Chris Picciurro:That is all you. No. That's that's wow. We just had a team just had a team member pass this for fourth part of the CPA. He's been with us seven years, started right out of school, and we're so proud of him, and and it's it's a huge accomplishment.
Katie Munoz:So Cool.
Chris Picciurro:You're gonna get that. Yes.
Katie Munoz:That's super cool. You got to see him go all the way.
Chris Picciurro:Yep. Yeah. Now he's moved into a different role. He's a he's you know, it's and and we're building what we call his pod. So we're trying to build a a book of, you know, business within our business that's kinda his.
Chris Picciurro:Instead of traditional, okay. I've got my license. I'm gonna go flag. You know, I'm gonna go do my own thing. So but, yeah, that's that's what we're working on.
Chris Picciurro:What advice would you give someone who's just on that edge of taking the leap? And then I only have one more question after that, but it's a it's a easy question.
Katie Munoz:I think it gather those thoughts, write them down, and do it. If you were there and you are on the edge, it's probably meant for you. And like I said, I wish I would have done mine so much sooner. I could have probably, like, written down my game plan and had some more things in mind for when I did mine. But realistically, if you're thinking about it and you're there, it's because it's probably meant for you.
Katie Munoz:You're that person who has the drive and the desire to do it. You're probably willing to put in the hard work. Yep.
Chris Picciurro:Awesome. Final question. It's an easy one. How can listeners connect with you? Obviously, this is an accounting and tax professional podcast, so we're probably probably not gonna have people saying, okay.
Chris Picciurro:Do you need help with this tax return? But or or bookkeeping. But, yeah, how how obviously, you're open to connecting. You know, if you if you go to taxposium, there's gonna always be room at the at the happy hour for anyone listening. We're gonna do another event next year, how can someone connect with you?
Katie Munoz:Probably the easiest way is my LinkedIn account. That's where most of the I helped people with mentorship or whatever is the LinkedIn account. I did give it to John. I don't know if he'll post it in the bottom of this or what the best way is, but that that's the best way to contact me.
Chris Picciurro:Absolutely. John always does a great job putting it all in the show notes. And
John Tripolsky:Well, I have to do something because I bring zero tax knowledge to this. So if I if I can't bring comedy
Katie Munoz:even doing anything back there, John?
John Tripolsky:No. You know, I just I just hang out. I just take this in. So I you know, it's really corny. You know how I'm I'm the king of dad jokes.
John Tripolsky:If anybody does listen to the the teaching tax flow podcast, I think that was the one that was Kitty or Kitty had mentioned that she listens to. We have a good time on there. So I I said something one time, and my wife goes, you know, you love your jokes. You're kinda like the the scrub daddy sponge, where I just, like, take it in, and then you, like, squeeze it and something dumb comes out. I'm like, okay.
John Tripolsky:That's a great that is a great way to put it. So that's what I do here. But Yeah. Katie, this
Katie Munoz:was excited for you.
John Tripolsky:We were super excited to do this topic with you. So, obviously, the day that this recording, the show's going live, you know, to the world here, it's April 15. So the quote unquote
Katie Munoz:Yeah.
John Tripolsky:Just to just to piss Chris off, we're gonna call it tax day because I know he loves loves when we call it that. So we appreciate your time. We know you're you know, this is not the the easiest time for a lot of tax professionals, but I think you, you know, being able to take the time and and your willingness to do it during such a crazy time. Yeah. Kudos to you for, you know, being organized enough to be able to take a little break.
John Tripolsky:So we appreciate it.
Chris Picciurro:I just wanna
Katie Munoz:say it. I loved being here, and I know I'll see you guys around at some conferences and wherever we wherever we meet up.
John Tripolsky:Absolutely. Well, we'll let we'll let Chris go because I know he ain't doing any tax returns, and and Katie will let you get back to business. So we appreciate it so much, though, honestly. Thank you.
Katie Munoz:Thank you, guys. Have a
Chris Picciurro:good weekend. Thank you.
John Tripolsky:Alright, everybody. And anybody who that's been listening to this, if you have any questions at all, please feel free to reach out to us at the MRR Institute. Literally just search at Facebook, LinkedIn. You can reach out to Katie. Her contact's in the bottom of the show notes as mentioned, as well as, you know, reach out to Chris if you have any specific questions, looking for a referral partner, anything like that.
John Tripolsky:He is a wealth of information and can direct you to the best people possible. So as we always close out, a show with some form of outro, we call it. We'll see everybody back here again on the Mr. R show.
Outro:You've been listening to the Mr. R show presented by the MRR Institute. For more content like this, be sure to check us out on YouTube for weekly expert tips, and don't forget to subscribe to this podcast to stay updated on the latest strategies for scaling and modernizing your tax practice. Looking for more? Contact us at mrrinstitute dot com for practice resources, coaching opportunities, and a peer to peer mastermind group.
Outro:Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time.
Disclaimer:The content of this podcast does not constitute an offer of securities. Offerings can only be made through an offering memorandum, and you should carefully examine the risk factors and other information contained in the memorandum. The content provided is for educational purposes only. We encourage you to seek personalized investment advice from your financial professional. For all tax and legal advice, consult your CPA or attorney.
Disclaimer:Investment advisory services are offered through Cabin Advisors, a registered investment advisor. Securities are offered through Cabin Securities, a registered broker dealer.
