Ep. 25 | Beyond The 1040 - Unlocking Hidden Tax Strategies
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Intro:Now let's get to the show and transform your practice together.
John Tripolsky:Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the MrR Show. Obviously, we know you're here because you are in the industry or looking to get in to the tax professional industry, and we welcome you. For lack of better terms during a great place, you're getting in at a great time if you're not in it yet. Obviously, if you're in this industry have been for a while have been for a short period, you obviously know what things are all about.
John Tripolsky:So here we are, we're not going tell you everything about the job that you have the very important position that you hold in many people's made businesses lives. But we are here to talk about some tips, tricks, advice, topics, you name it, how we can help you enhance your life. So before we get into this, though, I do want to mention, do not forget about your free CPEs. So look in the show notes of this wherever you're listening to it in regardless what platform and what you're gonna wanna do is you're gonna get off of this. But before you do that, click on the link that is directly in the show notes, and that is gonna take you over to our friends over at earmark, who is gladly going to give you that free CP after listening to it from there.
John Tripolsky:So what I mean by that is you cannot listen to it here. Go back into earmark later. You need to stop what you're doing, click on that link, and re listen to this through earmark's app. So without further ado, obviously, we're here. We're gonna talk about reframing risky little form ten forty, some people might say.
John Tripolsky:So what exactly does that mean? What exactly are you gonna take away from this? We are gonna dive into that brain that's full of information of Chris Picchero. So, Chris, welcome back, man. I'm glad to I'm glad to do this show with you because obviously, you know a whole lot more about this than I do.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Excited to be back. And first of all, listeners, thank you so much for your support. As tax and accounting professionals, we know we have challenges. We know that this industry is is is not shifting. It has shifted over from compliance to more advisory.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And, know, private my private CPA practice, which I'm a firm owner. Like many of you listening here and many maybe many people listening that aspire to be a firm owner or or one day. And we are gonna talk today about reframing form ten forty and looking at that instead of, just thinking about it just thinking about it as a compliance task, going from compliance to opportunity. And, you know, as a tax planner so my my role now in our private CPA firm and in the teaching tax flow community is doing tax planning and strategy. So when I look at a tax return, I'm not looking at it necessarily from a compliance perspective.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:I'm looking at it. Okay. What, what did that taxpayer do to legally and ethically reduce the tax they paid? What can they do moving forward? So I'm excited to just kind of just to share how I look at things.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Hopefully, you something resonates from this podcast episode to you, and you feel so inclined to jump in to our private Facebook group, Tax Pro two point o, and we'd love to hear from you. We'd love to collaborate. That's a free group for any tax and accounting professional. We have a lot of great interaction that interaction in there, and we collaborate quite a bit. So what we're going to do today is we're going to look at three core forms.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:All right? Or three core schedules. Schedule A, C, D, and E. We're going to walk through each schedule one by one and talk through opportunities that exist in each schedule. And then after that, we're going to talk about how to unlock those opportunities through advisory.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So it's one thing, you know, we always talk about in our private CPA practice. Ideas are cheap. Implementation is valuable. So how can you say take that opportunity? And many times you see that opportunity for your clients.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:However, you're not exactly sure how to execute that, how to implement that and unlock that value through advisory services.
John Tripolsky:So pretty much, Chris, what we're gonna talk about here, right, is, like, just getting out of that very straight line role of tax prep and expanding the offerings that are right in front of people. Right? Is that is that what I'm taking from this?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Absolutely. Because a tax return's a snapshot. It's a snapshot of what happened the year before, and we know that that, your tax returns should be a verb and not a noun. So let's talk about, but before we dive into those course schedules, let's talk about compliance versus planning. All right.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Going from compliance to opportunity. And, gosh, we you know, you and I, we talk to tax professionals and accounting professionals all the time. And one of the themes is, man, all these tax returns are bogging me down. And I see opportunity to do tax planning and strategy. I just don't know how.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:I don't have it. I don't know how to price it. I don't even, you know, I know I don't know how to frame it. And let's talk about that. So what is tax planning?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:First of all, tax planning is something proactive. I look at tax planning as everything moving forward. It's proactive strategic management of your finances to optimize or reduce your tax over the year. Where tax preparation is very reactive, right? It's compliance focused.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And it's just, like I said, it's a scorecard of all of your financial activity from the year before. So think that, think, think about that. Tax, tax planning and strategy is everything looking forward. Tax compliance is everything going backward.
John Tripolsky:And I feel too, Chris. I mean, from from a more of a taxpayer's perspective. Right? So if anybody's listening to this, obviously, this might be how your clients better see this, is I I think the the stereotypical you know, we're not gonna get into the pocket protector stereotype of the, you know, the account back in the day, but I I think the the we'll call it, you know, the modern tax pro. Right?
John Tripolsky:Like, we we refer to that, you know, in some regard in many places that there's a lot more, obviously, opportunity for growth for firm owners, for CPAs, any any tax pro now well beyond what I think was the expectation years ago. Right? Like, you're definitely more of a advisory role, more of a, you know, a confidant, if we will. You're you're more ingrained in this, and you're not just the person that they email once, drop off papers once a year, sit down with for fifteen minutes, and the return's done. It's a much more in-depth relationship that is we're gonna talk about.
John Tripolsky:It's much more year out.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Correct? Absolutely. I mean, your clients want you to be around year round. They want you to be available, and you and that's where the value is. Let's talk about value.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Right? The average tax preparation fee per client is about $400 so annually. The average tax planning revenue per client is about $3,200 annually. So that's an 8x. Okay.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Now, again, a lot of times you have to do some of the tax preparation work to get involved with the tax planning. But think about that average revenue per client of eight times your tax planning versus tax preparation. Right? So let's talk about our schedules. So we already know that these, the tax planning, tax strategy does create more revenue.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:It does create more revenue for your firm. But But quite frankly, it also provides more value to your clients. And we're gonna talk about how to frame that, like I said, reframing this ten forty. But let's look at a Schedule A, right? What does, what do these schedules reveal to us?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So Schedule A reveals itemized deductions. It's really it can open the door to strategic giving, property tax timing, and healthcare expense planning. So ultimately, with the way I look at Schedule A, it's an opportunity for us to take personal expenses and make them tax deductible. That's, that's what we're trying to do. Schedule c.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:You know, we dive into sole proprietorships, as you know, single member LLCs, disregarded entities. And schedule c also tells us about should someone be a single member LLC or sole proprietor. So how should they structure their entity? Are they taking advantage of all their business deductions, and are they contributing to retirement? Schedule d, we know that's capital gain loss capital gain and losses.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:A lot of times there's opportunity to pay a lower tax on long term capital gains. There's also opportunities to harvest losses and do investment planning. And remember, if you're if you're a tax professional, financial advisors are going to be people you work with a lot. So when you're working on schedule d, you're constant you're in contact with the financial adviser. Some actually, some tax professionals are involved with financial advising as well.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And one of the one of the the hidden tax benefits are are understanding the difference between realized and and unrealized capital gains and losses. Right? An unrealized capital gain and loss. John, you could have bought Apple stock for a $100. Now it's worth $100 worth of Apple stock.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Now it's worth $10,000. If you don't sell it, you don't pay tax on it. So you have an unrealized gain. So you're not taxed on that until you actually sell it. Conversely, if you bought it for $50,000 and it went down to $40,000 to to take that capital loss reduction, you have to sell that stock.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And then and then it comes down to, you know, can we when can we we deduct these capital losses? But so schedule d can is a window to someone's, you know, assets and and brokerage assets and that sort of something. It also can help you. Let's say you have a client that's self employed and you realize they have a decent amount in their brokerage account and they're eligible to make retirement plan contributions. Just by taking that money from their brokerage account and putting it into maybe a sup IRA.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:They now get a tax deduction. There's no necessarily money out of their pocket. We call that a behavioral tax planning implementation. So these just like, you know, John, I know you you hear me all talk all the time about how tax tax planning implementations don't like to. They don't like to be single.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:They like to mingle. They like to jingle. They like to be stacked. They like to be blended. These, these schedules don't just live in a silo.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:There are a lot of times there's an interaction between them, especially when we're talking about schedule A. So a lot
John Tripolsky:of schedule A deductions are based on your adjusted gross income. Well, schedule c and schedule d can can really affect your adjusted gross income. Right? So Right. So so you could I think if anybody takes anything from this show, maybe they should just try to remember that.
John Tripolsky:Right? That if Chris Pacquero ever retires, which is never gonna happen fully, I could I can probably say that confidently. Maybe you'll create that that quote, unquote strategy dating app. It sure always joking around about. Right?
John Tripolsky:Because you're right. They're they they definitely do not like to, you know, ride ride solo. They need somebody riding shot and come with them. We're a party of many.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Well, think about it. Let's say your your let's say your itemized deductions, let's say you have some medical expenses and we know there's a seven and a half percent adjusted gross income threshold, and we're gonna dive into this a little in in a couple minutes. And you have schedule c income. Well, if you, if you put money in a retirement account, it reduces your adjusted gross income. So not only are you reducing your taxable income, but you're also increasing the amount of medical deduction.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Let's say you have a big capital gain on schedule D, but you have some stocks and mutual funds and stuff that that lost money. You wanna harvest those losses. So these there's a lot of interaction between these these schedules. They don't just sit in a room by themselves. Then that fourth schedule that we're gonna talk about, our core schedule is the Schedule E.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So Schedule E is gonna tell us about your a taxpayer's rental income and deductions and also income deductions, etcetera, from pass through activities. That's gonna be your, your, your trusts, your estates, your S corps, your partnership returns. There's a lot in there's a lot of things that Schedule E can uncover. It's also gonna tell us if someone's maybe a real estate professional status or if they have passive activity losses, and those we know are stuck on Form 8,582. So these core schedules, A, C, D, E, are really, I look at that as the basis of of tax planning.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Right? Because, yes, w twos and and other income is out there, but we can't you really can't control what's on your w two unless you tell someone earn less money, which would be silly. But we can legally and ethically stage these schedules.
John Tripolsky:And for for somebody that maybe, you know, listen to this show that's thinking about getting into the industry, you may have noticed something's maybe missing or maybe off from what Chris was just saying. Right? And whatever actually happened to schedule b? Was that ever a thing? It goes you know, skips b as in boy.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Yeah. Schedule b. You know, there's a schedule b. Schedule b reports your interest income and qualified dividends and your dividends. So it is important.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:I would say if you're working with a client that has a large amount of income on schedule b, that you might that that's gonna be an indicator that they have a significant amount of assets in in the bank, maybe in CDs and and in just gaining bank interest. So that means they probably have a lot of liquidity. But the thing is is if, you know, if you took it out of the bank and didn't earn interest on it, you're not you're you don't have as many planning opportunities as a c d and e. It's just a good indicator of someone's financial liquidity and balance.
John Tripolsky:Makes total sense.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Yes. I there are a lot of schedules. I just didn't feel like b was a core schedule.
John Tripolsky:No. It makes total otherwise, would this would be a six hour show. Right? We can go into all kinds of stuff. So makes sense.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Well, let's look at schedule A. We know schedule A are itemized deductions, and we're gonna look at this as our first of the four core schedules. And we're gonna talk about opportunities that are available on schedule A. So we know that medical and dental expenses are deductible, but the only, the only deductible amount is that exceed are the, are the expenses that exceed seven and a half percent of of someone's adjusted gross income. Now, are special rules if you're self employed and you have health insurance premiums that that you could you could deduct your health insurance premiums up to your self employment income.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Or if you're an employee somewhere, I'm hoping that you're, you're getting your health insurance premiums are going in what are called pretax through your W-two. But what can we do on itemized deductions as far as medical and dental? Well, first thing would be is bunching your deductions across years. So let's say you have a medical expense. Well, I mean, quite frankly, let's say you've got three kids like I do, and they all need dental.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:They all have a lot of dental expenses. And assuming no one's in pain or anything, it might make sense to say, alright, I've got a bunch I've got two kids that need braces. You know, if I if I pay for one this year and one next year, I'm really not gonna go over that seven and a half percent threshold. So let's put the slap the metal on the kids' mouths all both on the same year. So bunching deductions across years is a is a opportunity for medical and dental expenses.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Using health savings accounts is a really great opportunity. Now, health savings account means putting money into that HSA pretax. It's almost like it's almost like an IRA for for. You know, health health expenses. So if you have a client that has a lot of medical expenses, but they're not able to use them because either they're not itemizing or they don't exceed the seven and a half percent, make sure that they are at least contributing to their HSA if they are eligible.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:I can't tell you how many times I've mentioned, are you eligible for an HSA? Oh yeah, I am. Well, why don't you fund that? So at least it's that that's coming off your adjusted gross income and you're not paying tax on that money on that income instead of paying all your medical expenses with after tax dollars.
John Tripolsky:And that's just one example. Right? I mean, in in full transparency, I was very shocked, you know, pleasantly surprised when we started diving into that a while back. Right? It was like it almost took a moment, you know, from, again, the taxpayer's eyes.
John Tripolsky:You're like, wow. Okay. I didn't know that. And that makes, wow, a lot of sense. Like, it's shocking.
John Tripolsky:Right? So when, you know, when we're talking about these advisory roles, and you really, you know, knowing your clients more than just a transactional relationship once or twice a year tops. Like, these are the things. Right? This one specifically, you get to know them better.
John Tripolsky:Like, gave the example of braces. Right? Like, what are the chances you would know a client may have some dependents that are in need of braces if you only meet with them for thirty minutes a year. It's not gonna happen. But when you start adding this advice to them, I mean, talk about the immense amount of value that this provides
Chris Picciurro, CPA:to children. At a tax return, and they have a lot of medical and dental expenses on schedule a, but are not being not able to deduct a majority of them or any of them. The yeah. That's a trigger to say we've got opportunity. A lot of times people have long term care premiums that they're not deducting because they just don't know.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:They they didn't realize that they they could deduct them. So, you know, long term care, we had a is is an issue in a in a planning opportunity in itself, but those long term care premiums are deductible. Here's another one, John. Mileage and travel for medical purposes. Right?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Especially if let's say you live in a more rural area and you have to drive a long way to go to your doctor or dentist, or let's say you have physical therapy and you're driving, you know, 20 miles each way to your physical therapist. That's four let's say you go three times a week. They'll those that mileage can add up. You can get a standard mileage deduction for medical travel. Right?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So that That is an that is an
John Tripolsky:interesting one that, you know, you you kinda compare that to, you know, it's it's always a a known fact. Right? Business owners usually, in most cases, I imagine, take care of, you know, mileage deductions. But who would have ever thought, right, your average taxpayer would probably never think of this. Right?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Mhmm. Exactly. They wouldn't. And and then claiming medical costs for dependents and relatives. You know, if you are claiming someone as a dependent, like a child or something like that, the medical expenses for that person are deductible on your return.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And sometimes we just forget about it. And sometimes you might have a dependent that's in college. They're away. They have to go to seek medical care, and and you kinda forget about it. You know?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So those are deductible as well. So what And
John Tripolsky:and honestly, Chris, as we keep going along in this too, I I do wanna and I'll probably bring this up a couple times, but I think this is really important to this audience. Right? So obviously, me and you, we also do the teaching tax flow podcast. Right? And that is very, very I should say very it is.
John Tripolsky:It's directed more towards the taxpayer. And, obviously, this one is the other side of the fence. So I feel like we have some of the same conversations. However, I really do like doing these because it's almost like we're we're having roundtable discussions with people that are also providing the services. We're we're kinda helping out both sides by doing this.
John Tripolsky:So, you know, I look at this again more from the taxpayer's eyes. And, again, we're only at the beginning of this. There's a lot more we're gonna dive into. Thirty minutes plus of this stuff. Think about it too.
John Tripolsky:Right? Like, if you go in I'm just literally trying to think of an example off the cusp. Like, say you are on let's let's use an auto mechanic, for example. I don't know if this is gonna make any sense, because I'm literally thinking of this as we're going through it. Right?
John Tripolsky:You're buying the car, you're using it, you know, get wherever you're you're using it to commute. You as the owner of that vehicle, say you're not a not a gearhead, so you're not really into cars. You just use them to use them. You know, they're a utility team. Don't it would be very important, and you would always try to find an auto mechanic that knows about your vehicle, right, that knows the model, the the make, you know, they're they have the the most current software because we all know that pretty much all of our cars now, you need a computer to work on these things and to operate them, which is why I think it it is super important.
John Tripolsky:And it's so there's so much value in that when a tax professional really kind of takes that that the ownership of the relationship, not, you know, ownership in a bad way, but like, hey, this is also what we can do. This is what I can offer you, instead of waiting for the client to ask you for it, right? Because that's, if you go to an auto mechanic, it's like, I just work on cars, I work on them all. I don't know, I figure it out as I go through it. That's like going to a tax professional that, you know, doesn't follow-up with tax law updates and changes.
John Tripolsky:And, you know, that's why that advisory role, I think, is so important. And most taxpayers probably don't even realize it exists unless you tell them. Right? So sorry to kind of get on the soapbox a little bit there, but I really think that's a that's a thing. It's an issue maybe.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Well, and so we're gonna work. Yeah. We're gonna you wanna you wanna be more than just a just a compliance based person with your, with your clients. So schedule A, we're gonna work into the itemized deductions. We already talked about medical.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Let's talk about taxes, right? So big change very recently with the one big, beautiful bill act. Remember that SALT, state, local income tax deduction was only $10,000 a year, which now that in '20 we just had a big change. That that's $40,000 per year. Right?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:There's still a lot of opportunity. There's still a lot of people that, believe it or not, pay more than $40,000 of state and local income tax. And because that that not only includes your that includes property In many states, property taxes are very high. So if you find if you you're looking at your tax turn and someone is paying much more than their deductible limit. Now $40,000 up from 10, a huge jump.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:But let's say they paid $80,000 of state tax. What can you do? What what advice can you can you give them other than tell them to move to attack a state with no income tax? But well, you might wanna prepay some of your property taxes or income taxes. Remember, you're a cash basis taxpayer.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Similar to the medical, you're bunching them. So if you have a fourth quarter estimated tax due you're in a year that you aren't at that salt limit yet, you might wanna pay that before December 5 thirty first, you know, that fourth quarter tax is not due till January 15 of the next year or property taxes. And then you might wanna talk to your clients about the PTT. So that's that pass through entity tax depending on what state you're in. So those are things you're gonna wanna look at to determine if your client could benefit from either of those two Let's talk about charitable deductions.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Alright? That's gonna be the last big thing on our schedule a that we're going to discuss. Now, you know, itemized as far as medical expenses, taxes, and charity. There are other deductions on schedule a, but these are the big ones. Right?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:What can we do for, charitable deductions? We know that charitable deductions are only charitable contributions are only deductible if you itemize. So many, many people make charitable contributions and don't get a deduction for it. So if you run into a situation where you have a, you're working with a client and looking at a tax churn where they are not, they're making charitable contributions and not getting a full deduction for it. Or if they're making charitable, I mean, if their charitable contributions exceed the deduction amount, it carries forward.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:What should you consider doing? Similar to taxes and medical expenses consider bunching contributions into a single year. So if one year someone's not going to itemize their deductions and the next year they're probably going to, then maybe you just wait a little bit of a few weeks and make that contribution into the next year or accelerate a contribution into a previous year. So in other words, a bunching the charitable contributions into a single year. That's, that's a great opportunity.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:You can talk to your clients about DAFs. That's called donor advised funds. So typically, someone's donating $50,000 more or more of cash per year, they they might wanna consider donor advised funds. Have your client talk to their financial adviser about that. That allows them to take the immediate deduction for the the money put into the DAF without necessarily having to deploy that to a certain charity.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Because here's the thing. A lot of times, someone wants to be charitable, but they're not a 100% sure what charities they want to contribute to but it allows them to take that deduction. QCDs. Oh, great opportunity. Qualified charitable contributions.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:I can't tell you how many times we we have taxpayers that are taking their RMDs, required minimum distributions, only to turn around and donate those to charities. So you've got a mature age taxpayer taking money out of their retirement account, paying tax on that, driving up the taxability of their Social Security only to contribute to a charity and not get a deduction. Why don't you think about a QCD where they could have the money go directly from their retirement account to the charity and avoid tax and the charity still gets that money for their operations.
John Tripolsky:That was one of the topics we talked about a while back on the on the teaching tax flow podcast, and it's it's wild. It's another one of those. I think it's a lesser known. Right? Like, who would have who would have thought?
John Tripolsky:I mean, that was that was a great topic when I forgot if I think we had a guest for that one that went into it. And, yeah, it's awesome. Like, once you once you know about those, you know, and and for the taxpayers, it's unfortunate, but, obviously, it's never gonna happen. Be nice if there was, you know, billboards up and down the the main freeways that told us these things. But fortunately for everybody in the in the industry, that's where the opportunity lies.
John Tripolsky:Right. Right? To extend that value.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Oh, absolutely. You're you're, there there's opportunity there. And it it like I said, it satisfies that that required minimum distribution. Think about donating secure like appreciated securities instead of cash. Give you an example.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Remember that Apple stock, John? Let's say you wanted to be charitable. You bought Apple stock for a thousand bucks. It's worth 50,000. Well, if you sold the Apple stock for 50,000 and then donated the $50, you'd have to pay tax on $49,000 of capital gains.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:But if you just take that Apple stock and transfer it in kind to the charity, you get a deduction for 50,000 without having to pay that capital gains. So that's donating a pre
John Tripolsky:The only thing that makes me feel better about this and you keep referring to Apple because you know I'm like a giant fan of Apple products is that I probably have spent $50,000. Look. Best decade in Apple products. That's that's my only win. I don't know of any Apple stock, unfortunately.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Well, I just it's an easy one to think about because we know it went up. You know, we went we know it went up.
John Tripolsky:I know what you mean. No. It's it is a good example. It's it's a very good example.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And then leverage charitable giving, which is a really advanced tax mitigation strategy, and then maybe establishing a private foundation. So when you when you start getting into the situation where you have $500,000 or more of income, that's where leveraged charitable giving and and a private foundation, it might make sense if that since that's not the majority of taxpayers, if that rings a bell to you or it speaks to you, just reach out to us here at the m r r MRR Institute, and we will guide you in the right So that is Schedule A. And we're, you know, we're moving on a schedule or moving on a Schedule C. Business income, right? So Schedule C, that's where self employed people report their income or someone that has a single member LLC as a tax professional.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:If you had a dollar every time someone thought forming an LLC was gonna give them more deductions, we'd all be retired. Right? But we know that that's not the case.
John Tripolsky:So Oh, yeah. That was one of the first podcasts me and you did. It was, I forgot what the actual title was, but, yeah, it was a it was a hot topic of that one. And and if anybody here, you know, you've had the pleasure of meeting Chris or or you will hear soon in person, just poke the bear a little bit and ask him about, you know, how many times he's been asked that. Oh, yeah.
John Tripolsky:It's fun. I have fun with that.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:It's amazing. So when you're looking let's talk about schedule C and let's look at the, business income and deductions, right? So let's say you have a client that has a large amount of Schedule C income. Now we know Schedule C income is the highest taxed income. Why?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:One, you're going to pay your federal tax on that. You're to pay state and local tax on the net income. You're also going to pay self employment tax, 15.3% on that income up to the Social Security maximum and potentially, you know, the Medicare surtax. So it's just a it's the most highly taxed income. That's where the way you have to think about it.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So every dollar of tax savings you can find for your client is very, very valuable. So what do you do when you run into a client that has a significant amount of schedule C income? All right. One, consider doing some income shifting to a related entity or family member. There there, know, obviously it has to be done legally and ethically.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:People have to We know that there's some abuse far as abusive schemes as far as shifting income. But think about, is there a related entity or is there a family member that they can shift that income to and move it out of a high, high marginal tax rate to a lower marginal tax rate? Two, if you're employing your spouse, remember this, this might consider implementing a Section 105 medical reimbursement plan. So let me speak on that for a second. Let's say that you're a solopreneur.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:John, we're gonna, you like that mechanic. Let's say you're a mechanic, right? And you've got a garage, know, garage behind the house, a pole barn, and you do you work on cars. You're a one man band. You're a schedule C, but your spouse helps you out with the billing, the bookkeeping, you know, and that sort of stuff.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And you don't have any other employees. Well and you have a high amount of net income. First of all, good for you. Well, maybe you wanna hire your spouse and then imp and pay them a reasonable wage, but then also do a section 105 plan and take all of those medical expenses. Remember I said these schedules dance around together that are on schedule A and have the business reimburse the spouse for those medical expenses under what's called a section one zero five plan.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So now not only are you deducting all those out of pocket medical expenses, you are also getting a business deduction instead of a personal deduction, which is better. Schedule c deduction is more powerful than a schedule a deduction.
John Tripolsky:Which is a beautiful thing. And and again, as I said it before, I'll say it again and again and again, the average taxpayer probably has no idea, no idea that that even exists. Right?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Right. So what we're looking for as a tax professional, we're looking for opportunity. You see the tax return in a different light than the tax than your clients. So when you're seeing this, these are some of the things that you you you want to look for. The other one is home office deduction.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Look at that Schedule C. Did that are they eligible for a home office deduction? Did the taxpayer take the home office reduction if they're eligible? Obviously, we've got that actual expense method or simplified method. You're gonna use that form eighty eight twenty nine for that actual expense method.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Another thing you gotta look for, are they making retirement comp plan contributions? Another one, should they be an s corp? Now like many tax other tax professionals, we know that s corporations are the probably the most overused entity. They're misdiagnosed, but at times they could be very powerful. So should your client be an S corp?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Think about that. If you're using an S corp, should they make it have an accountable plan? So with an S Corporation, if your client has mileage, if your client has home office, you could create an accountable plan and have the S Corporation tax free reimburse the employee, which is also the owner, for many business deductions and be very tax efficient. Make sure you're taking advantage of that Section 199A QBI deduction. Always track your business miles and vehicle expenses and think about blending all of these strategies.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:You know, how many times you look at schedule c and you don't many times you don't see a deduction in car and truck expense line. Unless a person never drives, yeah, which could be the case. So let's say you're let's say you're a coder and you just work in your basement. You haven't, you know, that could that that could be the case. But most people have some type of business mile.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So what I'm looking for in a schedule C is, do they take home office if they're eligible? Are they making retirement plan contributions? Are they you know, do they have the car and truck expenses? Should they be an s corp? Those are all considerations on schedule c.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Now we're gonna mosey over to schedule D. We know that schedule D reports are capital gains and capital losses. What should you be looking for for your client? Well, first thing you're going to do is say, look at the client's schedule and say, Do they have any capital loss carry forwards? If they have capital loss carry forwards, then they have opportunities to harvest capital gains and pay no tax on it.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:That's pretty that's pretty cool. Now, remember, capital gains and losses report all of your sales of stock, mutual funds, bonds. It also could report your sale of business interests. It could report a sale of a bunch of different rental properties. You know, it'll all eventually flow onto onto schedule schedule D.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So opportunities, Harvest capital losses to off-site capital gains. So if you have a client that seemingly has a lot of capital gains every year and they have capital losses sitting that are unrealized, harvest those losses. Harvest means sell those assets, and and and take that capital loss. Remember, can offset up to $3,000 with the ordinary income with capital losses. So even if they don't have any capital gains, you might as well harvest the $3 a year and offset those w two wages and other income.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Let's say you harvest those capital losses and you actually have $4,000 of capital losses. We know as a tax pro that we're gonna be able to carry forward any unused And that's not terrible. I mean, there's plenty of times where you might have a client that you're working with that says, you know what? I've, you know, I got some I've got some stock I'm going to be selling. I'm thinking about selling my business, you know, in 2026.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Let's say we're halfway through 2025. And but, you know, I bought that. I bought some stocks that were duds. Hey, let's just harvest the losses. Yeah.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:We could take $23,000 and 25, but I already know you're going to have capital gains in the future. Let's walk in or 2026 with some losses that we're going to be able to utilize. So timing those capital gains and losses strategically is important. Other thing, think about qualified opportunity zone funds with the OBBA, there's been an expansion of qualified opportunity zone funds available. They're super popular in 2017, 2018, 2019, and they're gonna be coming back.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So remember, opportunity zone funds can offset any type of capital gain. Doesn't have to be real estate. So that's that's it. That's huge. If you have an asset that you're going to sell.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So you probably if you're listening to this, you might have a client that owns a business. Maybe they own land or something and they say, you know what? I'm going to sell this. I don't really need the money right now. Now, again, you could do a ten thirty one exchange, but maybe but oftentimes what oftentimes happens is you've got a multigenerational business, right?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:You've got the matriarch, the parents maybe run the business. A child or two is starting to take over and they want to sell them the stock. They don't need the money right there. Maybe you should do an installment sale for capital gains. So if you have large gains, maybe an installment sale might make sense.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Heck, it might even be your accounting practice. Maybe you're listening to this and you want to sell your accounting practice. Doing an installment sale, as you know, is going to spread those gains out. Now, if you have a gain of over a half a million dollars or you're and you're working with a client that has a pending gain, you might want to consider something called the deferred sales trust. This is a very as a pretty.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Complicated or advanced tax planning strategy, but it allows clients to basically create an installment sale when one doesn't exist. So, John, let's say installment you owned. Yeah, business stock and you're going to sell it for $5,000,000 You don't necessarily need the money today, but the buyers paying cash are getting financing for it. You want to have installment sale treatment for tax purposes, but it's really a cash sale. That's where a deferred sales trust comes into play.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So that is that is an option. That is an option there. And then, you know, think about, Roth conversions. So if you're in a down market, right, if the stock market's down, you know, it's not gonna show up on schedule d, but we talk about capital loss harvesting. Remember, if you convert so think about that stock.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Let's say you bought stock for 10,000 and it went down to $2,000. You still believe that stock's gonna be valuable, but it's in your IRA. Maybe you convert that to a Roth and just pay tax on that $2,000. Try to avoid the net, that pesky net investment income tax, and try to stay below the capital gains thresholds, meaning we know that capital gains, the tax on capital, long term capital gains are based on your other income. So again, this is where cat schedule D plays a role with other schedules.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So our final core schedule we're gonna talk about is probably one of my favorites, schedule E. Why? Because I love real estate. Our private CPA firm niche is real like I said, real estate. And we know that rental properties and pass through income are reported on schedule e.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So when you're looking at schedule e, a lot of times you it tells you a lot about your client's tax situation, right? It tells you, do they have passive income? Do they have passive losses? Do they have non passive losses? Do they have passive activity loss carry forwards?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:What's going on with these properties? What type of properties are there? Are they short term rentals? Are they long term rentals? Are they apartment buildings?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Are they land? Are they getting royalties? Are they getting K-1s from an S corp, a partnership? There's a ton on Schedule E, in Schedule E page two that gives you a window into what, you know, how you can help them. So let's first talk about part one of Schedule E.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:That's gonna be your rental real estate, right? What are some opportunities for your clients to legally and ethically reduce the tax they pay in their lifetime? That's what we do in our practice and help people. One, are they rep status? Do either one of the spouses qualify as a real estate professional status, which would make those rental those rental activities potentially non passive?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Should you group rental activities together for material participation purposes? That's especially important when you're a real estate professional status. Do your rentals, assuming you have rental net rental income, qualify for the one ninety nine deduction? There's actually a safe harbor available to get the QBI deduction on rental income. It is available.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And some people use it. Should you use a cost segregation study? Right? Are you looking at a client's tax return? They're either have the short term rental loophole, they're either a rep status, or maybe they just have passive income and they're not using.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And you could do a cost segregation study. Now that we have bonus depreciation back up to a 100% with OBBA, I think this is going to become more prominent. I already mentioned I let the cat out of the bag, that short term rental loophole. Right? So are they operating a short term rental property and have material participation that could qualify that activity as non passive and you pair that with a cost segregation study?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Do they have passive activity losses? Like I said, maybe you have someone that has so much in passive activity losses, they might want to make it absorb some passive activity gain, or they might be able to sell a property that's
John Tripolsky:a passive activity and pay no tax on it because they have other losses. So there's a lot of opportunity there. And you said that magic word of pairing. Right? That that keyword of pairing things together.
John Tripolsky:Right? You mentioned actually a couple times just in this alone and even in real estate. Right? Like, the opportunity, I think, is huge, right, with especially in real estate in that world because you're really you're bringing in a lot of of sources of opportunity. Right?
John Tripolsky:So having a solid understanding of the schedule e is a it's a it's a key to a very very vast world Absolutely. Of ops. Right?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:I and I kinda I talked about this already. Do you have a client you know, we have a I work with a lot of people that have rental properties that say, you know what? I'm gonna sell the rental property to the tenant, but I'm going to sell it to him on an installment sale because this person is going to is a good tenant. They want to have homeownership. They might not qualify for a mortgage at the moment, but we want to keep them in that property.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So do an installment What happens if you have a client that sells a property that doesn't need the cash? I'm just looking at these all the times. You might have an opportunity to do a ten thirty one exchange. You might want to group your rental rentals for aggregation rule purposes. You might want to make the de minimis safe harbor election that allows you to take a deduction.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:For any expenses. That are under $2,500, even if it's something you would normally capitalize, like think about a refrigerator. Or a major repair. And then sometimes you actually want to elect out of bonus depreciation. Right?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So let's say you you put an asset in a service with a rental property, and let's say you're getting a 100% bonus depreciation and you really don't need that deduction this year, then elect out of it. So the bottom line is sometimes you wanna bring more income into Schedule E rental. Sometimes you wanna get more some income out of there. It's just about managing that and looking for those opportunities on part one of Schedule E, which are your rental properties. Let's talk about part two of Schedule E, pass through entity income.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Obviously, you're going to need the tax returns for these entities to do the really advanced planning and to truly start implementing some advisory services. Most of the time, if you're working with a client, you're preparing the tax returns for their entities, right? So let's think about that. If you have a client that's an S corp owner, make sure they're paying themselves reasonable compensation. A lot of times people are paying more than reasonable compensation.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:We know that zero is not reasonable compensation. I had a client that I was working with on a personalized tax plan that was the reasonable compensation for what they're doing was about $70,000 a year. It was just we did a reasonable compensation study. They're paying themselves 250,000 on a W-two. So they're paying way too much in payroll taxes than they needed to.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So think about that. So look at the the you know, that k one from S Corp is gonna tell you tell you some information. You're also gonna have that w two. At times, the entity you know, we talked about retirement plan contributions as a as a schedule a tool or in the schedule c, but let's say the entity is an s corp. Well, the s corp might implement a simple IRA or four zero one solo K plan.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So maximizing retirement contributions to the entity that reduces the taxable income on the K one as it hits schedule E. Should you look at if you're if you see a multi member LLCs, does it make sense to be that S corp? Again, I cringe at even saying it. John, you know how much I think S corps are overused. But is when you're looking at that K one income, is the entity selection proper?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Are fringe benefits being optimized at the entity level? Right? So that's that's another thing. Again, are we taking are there are there expenses that are kind of personal in nature that we can make a business expense through either an accountable plan or a Section 105 plan, Section 125 plans? Or is there an opportunity to put some fringe benefits on getting paid by the entity and reduce the K-one?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:And is there income shifting available in family partnerships? Right? Because if someone's a multi member LLC, some of the same principles that I talked about on Schedule C are the same. So look at those K-1s and see if there's a legal and ethical way to reduce those. Now I'm going to wrap up because I think we went through schedule A, schedule C, schedule D, schedule E.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:I'm going to wrap up and say, how do you unlock the year end value with advisory services? And we really dove into this quite a bit, John. I know that you're part of our our mastermind group, our peer to peer mastermind group here at the MRR Institute. And everyone in the mastermind group, and there's probably, I don't know, 15 or 20 people in each mastermind group, provides advisory services. They all do provide advisory services.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:The difference is who's monetizing it properly. Have you met I mean, you've met a lot of accounting professionals. I don't know that any of them that are not. What's your perspective on what you know, on this topic as far as is it getting monetized? And are they, do you feel like accounts are providing advisory services if they know it or not?
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Oh, John, you're muted. I'm sorry, my man. I I I threw you so off guard by this question. You you didn't know what to do.
John Tripolsky:Oh, yeah. Yeah. You definitely caught me off a little bit there. But, hey, you know what? Technology is what it is.
John Tripolsky:Mute buttons exist for a reason. Can you be coughing in the background? But, you know, to answer your question there, Chris, yes. I I have a a a very unique perspective on this. Right?
John Tripolsky:Like, obviously, I think I know more about taxes than the average person through osmosis with you and others, but you're right. Like, to to get into that, I think it it is very interesting to be at those conversations, you know, at the table when they're taking place. It's almost like a lot of tax pros, they they say that, oh, man. I'm I'm I'm just frustrated with clients and the situation. I'm I'm overworked on this and that.
John Tripolsky:And then almost in the same conversation, you know, I don't know if a lot of them realize it. They they do get into kind of the Oh, man. But yeah, I've been they're asking for all this stuff, and I'm giving it to them. But then, you know, as we're listening, I think we all hear, like, hey. But you're you're doing that for free, like, for zip.
John Tripolsky:It's an you know, it's not everything's pro bono. So I would probably say if I had to put a number on it, I would and I could be wrong. Again, my viewpoint's a little different. I'd probably say the three quarters of people are are giving it away for free. And I would also probably say that nine out of 10 of those actually already realize that they're providing those services for free.
John Tripolsky:They just don't know really the best way to to handle monetizing that in some way or another. And not being greedy about it. Right? They just don't know, you know, how to how to take a next step. And then, again, I could be wrong.
John Tripolsky:I don't know if I'm right or not.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:No. I agree with you. And I so that's why I wanna talk finish this this episode talking about how you're gonna unlock the year round value with advisory services. There are two different buckets of revenue that can come in. Your first bucket's gonna be what I call your top line revenue.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:That's gonna come into your practice. Now, sometimes people create a separate entity for this and a consulting side, but there's that and then there's a second bucket revenue that can come in from strategic implementation partners. So let's talk about that first line. The first the first the top line revenue or the top line revenue could be brought in in three different ways. Now if everyone's basically providing an adviser services in some way, shape, or form, I'm yet to see a tax pro that doesn't doesn't provide any.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:But each tax pro has their own way of delivering it, of monetizing it. The first bucket, the first group are just doing a complimentary. Actually, I'm working with someone right now in one on one coaching. And this person I really enjoy working with this person, and this person, acquired a tax practice, and the previous owner provided advisory services complimentary to everyone. He the the previous owner would meet with people before and after church and and all I think it was more of a hobby, to be quite frank.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So they were providing it complimentary. The second group of of tax professionals are doing it on an hourly basis. The third, a la carte value billing, which and the fourth, a part of a subscription. So I think that, you know, other than complementary, I think whatever you're comfortable with, either hourly rate, a la carte value, or subscription are the are the the best options. The vast, vast majority of the what we do in our private CPA practice is the subscription.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:We are building in a personalized tax plan and the cost of that personalized tax tax plan into every client's subscription with our firm each year. I do a little bit of project based or what I call a la carte when I collaborate with other tax professionals that really are in grow still in that growing process of doing tax planning and strategy. So let's look at some numbers, though, for hourly rates. Alright? And this this is these are the statistics that we found and and I have cited.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:CPAs offering advisory services charged between a 150 and $400 per hour with rates varying based on expertise and service complexity. I would imagine that enrolled agents, would be in that same range. They are very talented people. And, so think about hourly rates are gonna be about 150 to $400 per hour. Project based or a la carte fees, typically things like business valuations or or financial analysis.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:CPAs usually charge a flat rate between a thousand and $10,000, depending on the scope of the project. For ours, ours are about $2,700 and includes two meetings and when it comes to a personalized tax plan. So there's no wrong or right answer. I personally like the a la carte better than the hourly. But my favorite is the retainer of the subscription.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Firms providing ongoing advisory services often charge monthly retainers between 2 and thousand and 10,000, offering continuous support and strategic planning. Our minimum subscription, which does include the the precise tax planning that I'm talking about and tax preparation is $5,000 for our private firm. Our average is about 14,000. There's no wrong answer on that. I'm just being transparent of where where our firm is at, and we kinda align exactly with where what we're seeing out there.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So the hourly, a la carte value billing, and subscription are the three models you can use as a tax professional to monetize, these opportunities, or you could just give it all away for free. Let me finish with that second bucket, implementation partners. So in our private CPA practice, we have a lot of implementation partners. I'm gonna preface this by saying, make sure you do that you follow the ethical responsibilities as a tax professional to disclose if you're being compensated by an implementation partner. That being said, there are several revenue implementation partners that our firm works with.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:One, specialty tax firms. These are firms that do cost segregation studies, research and development credits, 43 l, a bunch of other specialty tax work that we don't have the expertise to do, and we just do a revenue share. If you're licensed to do financial advising, that's or tax advantaged investments, that's another potential revenue opportunity. Payroll processing. Our core many tax professionals process payroll.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:We don't. So we set up a a revenue partnership with a payroll software provider. Tax mitigation firms. A lot of a lot of, tax professionals do work with mitigation firms that do some advanced implementations, business transition specialists. So this could be referring people, you know, bringing in people that maybe are doing valuation work or stuff like that.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Software providers for specialty tax needs. So, like, mileage trackers, maybe, material participation, hour tracking, registered agents, entity formation. We don't do that in house. We have a referral, arrangement in bookkeeping, controllership, CFO services. And, hey, you might have a podcast like us.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:Right? So you might have you might do private events where you have event sponsors, and and advertisers on your podcast. So that's how you can monetize in that second bucket without you actually grinding that workout. We also have a lot of nonrevenue implementation partners that are important, like attorneys, bankers, insurance professionals, then we're unless you're licensed to, as a as an insurance professional, real estate agents, mortgage brokers, trust administrators. Those are people that you're going to use as an implementation partner when you recommend things that you're seeing within their tax or client's tax return without necessarily being compensated.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:But ideas are cheap if limitations valuable. So if you say, hey, I think you should do an HSA, they say, where do I go with that? Well, go talk to your bank first. There's no revenue from that bank coming back to you, but it doesn't matter. You left your client in a better place than you found them.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:So those are those two buckets. If you have any questions, again, I I would say reach out to us or simply take two minutes and go to modernfirm.tax, submit an inquiry, and we
John Tripolsky:will reach out to you. As always, fantastic topics. I think we ran through here. And, again, we mentioned various places you can go to for some resources. I think Christy did a great job of outlining, you know, a lot of the stuff that you guys have done or have been growing into and expanding within your private practice, which is great.
John Tripolsky:While we were chatting too, I did do you know, I frankly transparently honest, I just got into a chat GPT and put in there, hey. Give me 10 credible from 10 or from credible sources, 10 most common complaints from taxpayers about their tax preparer. And the the funny thing, but not funny, is four of those of the 10 are directly related to what we were talking about here. So this is a no order. It didn't give me the exact sources from it.
John Tripolsky:Basically, just told me as I asked it, you know, industry feedback or sources from industry feedback, various reviews, IRS reports, and consumer watchdog data. So take it for what it is, grain of salt. We know how it goes. I'll be very quick with these. One of them was limited availability outside of tax season.
John Tripolsky:I think we talked about, you know, advisory is more of a a year round relationship role. Another one was no client education, believe it or not, which, again, the adviser role, I think, provides that. You know, you become that source. Poor communication was another one, which, I mean, I think any industry might get that. You know, anybody might say unresponsive, slow emails, etcetera.
John Tripolsky:But the one that stood out, and I'll mention all three of the bullets that I put under this, it was lack of tax strategy. Vividly says that exactly. And I'll read you these three bullets. It says, merely data entry with little to absolutely no tax planning guidance was one of them. The other, not helping reduce future liabilities by offering optimization, which, again, we spoke on.
John Tripolsky:And the other one, no year round support, just transactional services provided at or before filing time. So I think all those are so directly related to what we talked about here. And I would say, Chris and and this is just one question for you before we close. Do you think when you guys started to move more towards this advisory role in in your practice, it took time. Right?
John Tripolsky:How much? And just very, very briefly, how much do you think this completely revolutionized the way that you guys actually offer value to your clients? I put you on
Chris Picciurro, CPA:the spot now. I mean, it it changed everything. Yeah, it's like it's all complete shift, right? I mean, it's it's it didn't. Yeah, it was a complete shift to advisor, you know, leading with advisory and planning and going to a subscription model and being proactive with your clients And it's because that's sticky.
Chris Picciurro, CPA:That's how you that's how clients you want that client to feel like, what would I do without without you or your firm? There you
John Tripolsky:go, everybody. You you you heard it exactly from the guy who's lived it and has been through it, And it didn't happen overnight. I can say that again, kind of being along for the process here. I've I've seen it go through various stages. But, yeah, I'm I'm proud to say that that I've seen it happen.
John Tripolsky:And, Chris, you know, honestly, I see a lot of the people that you do consulting work with, you know, a lot of one on ones groups in our mastermind, etcetera. I love seeing other people now jumping in it and and kinda taking taking those changes to the next level. So as we mentioned, there's resources we spoke on in this specific episode, obviously, kind of an open book. I think everybody here, if it's it's somebody we can connect you with, please reach out. We are happy to do so, as well as go back and listen to some of these podcasts.
John Tripolsky:And, again, a reminder, I would say majority of these podcasts, we'd think we're number 24 now. You actually get a CP for it. So if you're about to do a road trip, get on a flight or something, go back. I mean, collect these things like you would, you know, pogs back in the day or Beanie Babies. I don't know.
John Tripolsky:There's all kinds of examples. But jump on them. Take advantage of it. Again, it's free. It's not cheap and you value.
John Tripolsky:It's free to you. Extreme value in every one of these. Check them out. Let us know any topics that we may wanna hit on that you got going on in your world. So, again, thank you for everybody joining us here.
John Tripolsky:Thank you for the ideas. If we don't see an event live soon, we'll see everybody back here again next month on the Mr. R show.
Outro:You've been listening to the Mr. R show presented by the MRR Institute. For more content like this, be sure to check us out on YouTube for weekly expert tips, and don't forget to subscribe to this podcast to stay updated on the latest strategies for scaling and modernizing your tax practice. Looking for more? Contact us at mrrinstitute dot com for practice resources, coaching opportunities, and a peer to peer mastermind group.
Outro:Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time.
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